Happy Monday morning. Did you know something? What? It is. October. Stop it, stop it. I know it’s October, because this past weekend we had the Czech Fest in Yukon. Oklahoma. Yes you did. Yes. You did. So that means 100 of my closest, dearest friends come and bring their lawn chairs and hang out in my yard, which is two blocks from the parade route and two blocks from route 66.
So that’s kolaches. And so. Oh, do you do a kolache with a pumpkin spice latte? No, no, no. that would be rough. So warm. Normally you know, like I go get a bunch of clutches. Yeah. No. And then I have coffee, but I’m having I’m thinking it’s going to have to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Suddenly that coffee was a little bit, a little bit warm, and I, I shouldn’t even say this in public, but we buy clutches from the Methodist and not from the Czechs.
I should have got that. That little, music. Dun dun dun. I know, and it’s all good. That’s all of them. And they’re they’re so good together. I’d have to walk an extra, like, two blocks to get them from the Czechs in the Methodist or closer in you. I, I can understand. Anyway, they’re so good. So anyway, October.
Here we go. We. Yes. We talk about this morning. Yes we do I know. So a couple of things we just want to put on everybody’s mind because we’re getting ready for a special guests. I’m so excited about it. October 16th we have free for ethics. So once a month free. It’s free. Free. We like that. Okay.
It’s a, you know, everyone has to have ethics. And this is what this provides. We’re so excited about it. October 16th. Put that on your calendar. And then on October 22nd insure Bank has a webinar called Internal Perpetuation. Now this is a topic that so many people are asking about because as we know, when we were talking five and ten years ago, we were talking about the perpetuation of agencies because many people were starting to retire.
We were seeing the total, the baby boom generation. And then how are they buying it out? And, you know, we do talk about mergers and acquisitions, but a good perpetuation plan is good. EnsurBank is a great resource for that. So they’ll be giving a webinar on October 22nd. And we had a big event here. What was that two years ago.
Yeah. Which was very well attended. So yeah. Yeah. In fact we will probably be doing that again. We’ll be talking a little bit about it and then Catalyit you know every Big I member has access to Catalyit, which is like the consumer reports of insurance. And that tech webinar it’s called GetLYIT, GetLYIT, which is super funny.
No, no, get lit lit, which is part of Catalyit.. So I don’t think when they created that name that they were actually thinking the way we’re thinking, GetLYIT Right? Okay. Yeah, but they do. When they did come up with it, they were giggle, giggle. Okay. So they thought it maybe they did. Funny. Yeah. So that’s October 28th and 29th.
I’ve been to this before. So this is this year. But last year was great. So I would say put it on your calendar. And then of course, our young agents always have something to do. So their community service project is on October the 29th. And it’s going to be in conjunction with Fremost, Insurance. So they are sponsoring it and it’ll be free to live.
Animal sanctuary, I think I said before, I probably won’t go help because otherwise I come home with a puppy. Yeah, you got enough? I got enough. You have. You have brought strays into your house. Yes, I have, and so you have done your part. Yeah. I definitely have. So yeah. Okay. That’s a few things going on. Holy cow.
October’s busy for us, isn’t it? It is, it is. Okay. I’m so excited about today’s guest. You know, we’ve been bringing on a few guests, but this one is particularly exciting because this is a big I member. I’ve known him for years. I know him when he was a baby. Oh, I know, and now he’s grown into a position where he is running for insurance Commissioner
Very, very exciting. Yes. It’s it’s funny because you never you never know, you know, this, this industry, it’s small, but it’s large. He was actually an underwriter for an account my dad had. So he’s done underwriting. He flipped over to the agent side. Where? Where he is today. And. And now he has been working for a large company called Alora.
And very exciting because they are they’re very interesting and in their business plan, too. So Bob’s gotten to be a part of that in, Oklahoma. So it’s very exciting. But we’re going to get a little bit of information from him. And we’re very excited about this election coming. So let’s bring him let’s bring him in. Oh well hello.
Hello. I’m sorry I called you a baby. That’s okay. I, I was a baby when we met, 21, 22 years. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah, that’s that’s crazy. Isn’t it funny? Do you ever think. I mean, I was even the same when I started my insurance career. Do you ever think you’re going to end up sitting where you’re sitting?
Heavens, no. I mean, I mean, I mean, I still have moments that I’m like, how how did I get here? Right? And and here we are. So. Well, listen, thank you for coming today. It’s good to get to see you. I feel like we’ve got to talk a lot. So this has been a really fun journey to be on.
I hope you feel like we’ve been on it together, but we’re very excited. It’s really cool. We have, as you know, we have big. I remember running for insurance Commissioner, and we have a big I member running for Congress. And so holy cow, that’s we’ve been kind of busy around here. But how great for our industry that we have people that really understand the depth of insurance.
And so we’re thrilled about it. So we’re going to get to know you just a little bit as a Big I member remember you’re among friends. And so in the agent community. So we just want to know a little bit of background and all that. So, so the people that don’t know that haven’t known you for 22 years, tell us a little bit about yourself and then why you decided to run for insurance Commissioner.
Yeah. So my name is Bob Sullivan. Blessed to be the Republican candidate. Nominee for Oklahoma insurance commissioner. Born and raised Oklahoman, fourth generation in this state. Grew up very rural, in a little town in northeast Oklahoma called Cleora and Vinita High School from there, Oklahoma State University from there. And then, God smiled upon me by tanking the banking industry as I was graduating OSU with a finance degree.
And I found my way into the insurance industry. Started out as a commercial underwriter with Hanover Insurance, and their middle market division worked Oklahoma and Arkansas business and agencies. And, then in 2010, I came to the good side and became an independent agent, with Rich & Cartmill and, worked there for 12 years, built a book, helped to, two of my mentors, two producers retired during that time.
And, then in 2022, joined the Alera Group and helped my third mentor retire out of, out of the industry. So, that’s your superpower? Apparently, yes. It’s, it juggling chainsaws. Yeah. This is what it feels like, what it is. But, you know, lifelong Okie. Like I said before, I love this state and looking forward to the opportunity to serve the state of Oklahoma and our industry.
The insurance industry is the next insurance commissioner. That’s very, very exciting. Well, I know probably a little bit, but but but whenever you decided to run for insurance commissioner, it was really I mean, can we almost say it’s because of your kids? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and combination of my, my, my kids and my mother. Oh. You know, my my mom lives in the house that I grew up in.
Yeah, up at Grand Lake and want to see her, you know, fulfill her dream of living out her the rest of her life in that house and not be forced into a different lifestyle because of rising cost inflation, including insurance. And and certainly proud father of a 12 year old boy and a nine year old girl. And I want to see them be able to grow up in this state and live their entire lives in the state of Oklahoma if they want to, the way I was blessed to and, and a healthy insurance market and a positive, thriving state is necessary for that.
Otherwise, we’re going to lose our young people to our neighbors in Texas and other states or, you know, Oklahoma’s just such a beautiful, fantastic place to live and grow a business and put down roots. I want to see that opportunity for my kids. Well, isn’t it? I think I remember this I was talking to someone on your staff.
And so weren’t your kids, like, playing soccer? And that’s how you. So typical of how we network and. Yeah. And and someone to talk to you about. Hey have you ever thought of this. And because I don’t think you suddenly walked in one day and I think I think it was mentioned to you, which I think is really cool because it’s about networking and it’s about who we know, and it’s about being in our community.
And I think this is a great example of that. Yep. You’re 100% right. The the my son’s best friend. For the last several years. And they played soccer together, and I wound up coaching their basketball team later. You know, one of the dads, had had a previous life in politics, and that that was one of his suggestions.
And it’s funny, it’s a credit to the independent agents, I think, in this world. He said, Bob, I’ve learned more about insurance serving cupcakes at Bobby’s birthday party than I did throughout my life and in my time in the legislature, so that they’re very high praise. I think that’s, that’s part of the secret sauce of being an independent agent.
You can talk insurance anytime, anywhere, and not run people off. But so it’s our true. They need your knowledge. Well, okay. So I know that you’ve worked at the carrier side as an underwriter. You’ve worked the insurance side as a as a producer, which is incredible background. So how do you view that this would help you in the commissioner’s job?
You know, I think it, you know, the underwriting side that my time in that world certainly taught me a lot of the technical knowledge and expertise, and we certainly continue that on by, you know, pursuing a lot of continuing education, CIC, CPCU so on and so forth. There’s there’s a deep technical knowledge there to draw from, but being a producer means you are walking hand in hand with your clients, whether they’re my business clients or or my personal lines clients.
You, you see and feel every step of this process and how it affects them. Personally Not just on the pricing side, but how how claims are handled. You walk side by side with your clients during that time as well. And I think because the insurance commissioner in Oklahoma is an elected position, that means I answer to all 4 million citizens of the state of Oklahoma.
Those are my bosses. Yeah. Denise, you have a board. I mean, you’re against it. You just have a board. I’ve got the entire magic to answer to. But I think having that perspective and that empathy that I think, we have as independent agents is going to be vital to making sure that we can strike that proper balance of fairness in the insurance industry.
I agree, I always say to agents, I mean, it’s a cliche, but we really are boots on the ground. I mean, we start, as you know, we you know, you start with a client that they might be small or they might have an idea and you grow that business. And, you know, I’ve always, you know, as, as an agent, you know, you may start out with a rather small account and you can turn around and suddenly it’s a very large account because they’ve grown into it, you’ve grown into it.
And I can tell you this, I know more about EIFS you know, exterior installation finishes than I ever thought I needed to know in my wildest dreams I was I had some clients that that did that and that’s that that was controversial at the time. So, yeah, I mean, so, so interesting. So independent agents are sometimes caught in the middle between the consumer, the customer and the carrier.
So but it’s interesting because as you know, whenever you’re working with one of your clients and they pay you $5,000 as an agent, I think, I think the consumer sometimes think that you get to keep $5,000, but. Right. I just I’m glad you’re laughing because you know this story. But but we also know that we’re representing the carrier who we also have contracts with.
So tell me a little bit, just knowing that like what role do you think independent agents play in shaping the policy and regulation in Oklahoma? You know, I think it’s been really fun to watch and witness how we’ve seen independent agents take a more active role in, in the political ecosystem within Oklahoma. I just came from a meeting with Senator Reinhardt, who is an independent agent, and, and our careers have kind of been parallel to one another.
We’re about the same age, have kids in same schools, all that. But and, you know, you mentioned earlier in the podcast, you know, that representative Mark Tedford running for U.S. Congress, another great independent agent, great insurance mine there. I think it’s been really fun to witness that over the last several years. And I’m just happy to count myself among among great men like that and great people like that.
In trying to take that active role. But for the rest of the independent agents out there who don’t want to get into the mess of politics. And, and I sympathize greatly that, I think the role of an independent agent in a helpful manner for, for my perspective as a future regulator is keep the line of communication open with your state regulatory agency, with the Oklahoma Insurance Department.
I remember there were times with difficult claims and difficult situations to navigate, with clients of mine. And, you know, the last thing I wanted to do was contact the Oklahoma Insurance Department. That’s a big, scary regulator. They hold my license. Yeah. You know, there there’s you know, there’s a fear and trepidation that exists with that. And I think that that relationship needs to be more open and be a friendlier face for agents to, to advocate on behalf of their clients.
And it would certainly help me, from not just from a data collection standpoint of knowing where the problems are and where we need to deploy capacity to to ensure that the market is fair and competitive. But but I think, first and foremost, the job that independent agents do is vital to the insurance ecosystem in the state of Oklahoma.
We have to have that accessibility to the marketplace. That only happens really with individual agents. It’s it’s it’s really true. So I tell our agents a lot of times that sometimes I think they think legislators are unattainable, but we know they all are. You see them getting gas like, because they’re from their own hometowns. They are the representatives of that.
So representatives and senators don’t always know everything about insurance. They cannot know everything about everything about what they’re going to be legislating on. So we always encourage our member get to know that person that’s in your district. I can get to know all of them because it’s it’s so many. But if they live literally in, Inola, Oklahoma or Yukon, Oklahoma, we have to get to know who our own is.
So that way, if the word insurance comes up, we want them to think, what is the Big I think, what does my independent agent think? Because they’re the ones that understand it. So, sometimes we’re not we may be hesitant to run for office like we’ve taken a huge step, but really, our agents don’t have to run for office to be active in the legislative process.
Correct. So yeah, I think and I think having that open dialog outside of session and outside of, you know, the busy season, of Oklahoma politics is vital to that because, you know, maintaining and nurturing a relationship doesn’t just happen a few months out of the year. It’s a continuous process. And and I think if there’s if there comes a time when there’s a really, really important issue that is facing and independent agents having that existing relationship, that you’re going to be more successful having a conversation, possibly a difficult one.
Yeah. If you’ve already laid the groundwork and have a positive working dialog, well, I’m going to I’m going to go off the script and I know this is not new. This is going to be me. It also, if you know a legislator that’s running for office, it takes money to run for office. So I always encourage everyone, I mean, either through OKPac, which, which we support or in the legislature like to, help them, you know, if it’s someone you believe in, help them.
Because yard sale, yard signs cost money. So it’s really important that we support them in our knowledge. But there’s other ways we can support them. So Jerry, I went totally off script, but I felt that was a BIGiOK.com/pac. . We’ll get back on subject.
So we talked about holding carriers accountable for claims handling. You know there’s some controversy in that. Tell me what kind of specific changes that you’d like to see consumers and agency in the claims process. So overall like like we know it’s got to be done differently for sure. I mean, you know, it’s interesting because we have a tremendous number of carriers operating in the state of Oklahoma who do things right.
And and it’s just like any profession, you know, your 80/20 rule or maybe it’s 90/10, you know, the 10% who are doing things incorrectly bring down the reputation of everybody doing things right. But I think from a regulatory standpoint, we are going to be very focused on on making sure that claims are handled appropriately and efficiently and in a timely manner.
I think that’s that’s beneficial not just to the consumer. And the claimant, but to the overall health of the insurance marketplace, because time is money and the longer some claims go out, go along, the more expensive they become. And, and keeping an eye on that, I think is going to be beneficial for all parties concerned, which is, you know, yeah, the truest test of fairness.
Right. Is everybody going to be treated fairly in this? But, you know, I think it’s it’s going to be an ongoing issue. There’s there’s plenty of litigation going on right now that’s going to, change, change the landscape somewhat. I’m, I’m afraid, but but making sure that we that my, my biggest role in what I’m focused on is regardless of the outcome of any pending litigation that’s occurring right now in the insurance space, being very upfront that we want to we can heal and we can move on.
Right. And making sure that we keep a vibrant and competitive insurance marketplace in Oklahoma is going to be the forefront of my attention, because, you know, we’re going to treat people fairly and we expect the same in return. Well, saying all that, how are you thinking that we’re going to balance the consumer protections with the need to keep.
Because it’s also important we want claims to be handled. We understand that. But we also want good insurance companies going to right business in Oklahoma. And so we want that to protect the consumer. But we also want it for the industry. Absolutely. And you know there’s there’s ongoing efforts right now to improve the risk characteristics of the state of Oklahoma.
From a from a property standpoint, the Fortified Building Program is not yet, not yet finished with its first year of a full statewide adoption and operation. But, I’m very confident, very optimistic that the results of that will be better quality roofs on homes, fewer claims for those, those policyholders. And the more that we can expand and double down on better construction, the better the overall risk characteristics of the state of Oklahoma will be, which should be an attractive feature for insurance companies to write more policies to deploy more of that capacity, potentially bring some new carrier entrants into the marketplace, which is always, helpful for for a healthy, healthy market.
But, you know, even beyond that, we’ve talked and made a major campaign point to pursue the deductible and disaster savings accounts. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that. Sure. So many people are familiar with health savings accounts. If they’re on an employer sponsored plan with a high deductible. And and the idea behind it is pretax dollars, go in to that account.
It can grow in some type of an investment vehicle, mutual fund, so on and so forth. And then utilizing those funds can be done for reroofing the house or responding to a disaster or a claim scenario to cover the deductible. Because when the deductibles are growing, most deductibles are growing. And and those are that’s a great method for controlling risk from the insurance company perspective and sharing it with the policyholder.
But there has to be a fund for that deductible risk. We’re we’re long gone from the days of $500 home deductibles that that were absorbable. But you know, most people could could manage a $500, hickey but now we’re talking about tens of thousands of dollars in some cases, with wind, hail risk. And there’s not a fund for that.
And there’s not a mechanism for that. It’s unintended self-insurance, which, I was one of the first CRM designees in Oklahoma. And, I still remember the concept very well. Unintended self insurance is a no no. Go go into it with eyes open. If you have capacity to take that risk, by all means save the premium dollars.
But, but not having a mechanism for that is just bad business. And. Well, that’s very forward thinking too. Well, I yes, I think it’s I think it would be very vital to changing the perception that insurance companies may have with the state of Oklahoma. And point having a knowledge that the people in our state are cognizant of the risk that they’re taking their funding for it.
They’re they’re invested in the process and not looking at insurance as a glorified maintenance plan for the roofs, which I think those low deductibles back in the, you know, early 2000. But put us in that position. We trained we trained consumers to look at insurance in that way. And so we’ve got some work to do to change the paradigm, change the way people view the policies that they’re buying, that we’re presenting to them.
And, and going into it again with eyes wide open, fully aware that this is the risk that they’re taking. And this is the value they’re getting for that insurance policy. Because, you know, we sell paper that we have to communicate the value of to our clients. And, and making sure that our clients and policyholders understand that there is value in that, that there’s a promise attached to it and the promise will be fulfilled.
Yeah. Well, and, you know, when we talk about affordability, this is a great way that to offset that, you know, and so we talk about affordability. We talked about attainability all of that in the market. And we can talk about claims and loss ratios. Just don’t get technical because that all involves math. So let’s do that this morning.
But but definitely I think that can address a little bit of the affordability issue because it’s just like you said it’s good planning. Well so I want to I want to switch topics just a little bit because I think this is the, the I mean, every article that I get, every class that I take is that technology and artificial intelligence can be more involved in underwriting.
So put your old underwriting hat on and pricing and claims and everything. What do you see as that? As opportunities? And how do you see regulators looking at that? What do you think are the negatives? That was a really big question. Oh sure. Yeah. The the AI topic, could take up an entirely separate podcast, but so true.
But what I’m what I’m seeing in the marketplace right now because I’m still I’m still doing business as an agent. We’re seeing a greater rate of adoption and more of an AI native landscape with, with insurance carriers and how they underwrite and price business. And I think the horsepower that AI represents is tremendous, right? I mean, the amount of data that could be analyzed in a much shorter amount of time is, is tremendous.
But if we remove the human element from from underwriting decisions, for example, I think we missed the boat. And I understand just like everybody in our industry that we have that generation gap. I’m, I’m the I’m the bridge generation. I was hired to be that generation to take that institutional knowledge from from baby boomer generations and Gen X and pass it on to, you know, Gen Z, Gen Y and Alpha, whatever we’re calling, you know, the next one.
And and that’s a tremendous responsibility. And because as an industry, we haven’t, I don’t think, hired enough and recruited enough talent into the insurance space. There’s a lot of companies who have nothing left to do but entrust a tremendous amount of responsibility to artificial intelligence. Yeah. And and that troubles me. I mean, I see it in the eyes, and we’re seeing it predominantly as well in the in the health insurance space.
Okay. Where, where some carriers are being very reliant on it. And I think that represents an opportunity for the carriers who still have people, to involve in that decision process, because it’s a personal we’re dealing with something that’s very personal, that affects people intimately, whether it’s health insurance or property and casualty. So I think having that oversight from qualified and knowledgeable individuals is always going to be the secret sauce.
I’m very concerned about it. From a claims handling standpoint, because, again, it’s personal and and no one, no one wants to talk to an AI chat bot after their house got hit with a tornado or suffered a fire loss. You you want to have a human being. And I think that’s a tremendous opportunity for insurance agents, for independent agents as well as you.
And I know as agents, many times, whatever the disaster is, their house brings down, their business goes, you know, tornado, whatever. My car. I just was in a car accident, you know, besides family, the first phone call is to your insurance agent, you know, and so I always felt like when I got those phone calls. And you’re probably the same as I am, I would get calls at six in the morning or 10:00 at night from a client that says, I just got hit and I need help.
And so there’s something about that people don’t realize. We really are a personal connection. And that’s how we we are with our clients. So, I the next five years, I think it’s going to be very, very interesting and to figure out what that balance is. So, I’m looking forward to it. Very interesting. We can also say it saves us a lot of time.
Okay. So you have an election coming up in November. You’ve been through already a couple. Let’s let’s say you’ve never been really in politics before. So let’s like you’ve been trial by fire. I think we can probably agree like you jumped into you jumped into a really big race. So started with four, then runoffs two, and now you’re in the general election against, the Democratic nominee.
So if you’re elected, what do you want Oklahoma insurance agents and consumers to notice about the insurance department in your first year? What are you thinking that first year in. Sure. Well, I definitely want to make sure that agents know that they’ve got an ally with OID, and having a commissioner that that sat in that chair has done that job, has had those same renewal meetings.
Client meetings, claim meetings is is vital, I think, to to making sure that there’s a the right amount of trust, that the OID is going to be watching out for agents and, and we’re going to have there’s a lot of changes coming that we need to be very cognizant about keeping agent involvement front and center with, with any type of insurance program and policy being sold in the state of Oklahoma.
We’re certainly making changes on the health insurance side and standing up a state based exchange and and it’s been something I’ve been very vocal about with those people who are currently doing that work that don’t forget about the agent. Make sure that people in rural Oklahoma have the ability to call someone that they trust, that they know to help them navigate very difficult, difficult products.
So that’s something that I want to be very, very vocal about and will continue to be very vocal about. But just making sure that from a consumer standpoint that they understand that the insurance department literally exists to represent them in this process. And when when there’s a disagreement, when that when there’s a discrepancy and there always seems to be eventually, that they’ve got an advocate fighting on their behalf there and, and then and that we’re going to treat them fairly and ensure that they’re treated fairly.
Well good I, I agree. Well as you as you know I say this to you a lot, but anything that I can do for you or anything independent agents can do for you, let us know. We’re happy to help you again. They’re boots on the ground. So so many times if I run into a problem, I’ll go to my agents and say, how have you dealt with this?
And it’s it’s great information to have because most have crossed some issue that that maybe I haven’t crossed you. You haven’t. So, we’re very excited for you and thrilled and offer anything that we can, we can do to help. So it’s very exciting to have a Big I member just moving up through the ranks. So saying all of that, thank you for being here now, Jerry,.
Yes. To step in with the fun stuff. I had to do all the hard things. Yeah, I get the fun side. Take a deep breath. So you just get to have fun. I promise I will not stop and and ask you many questions because we did this the last time. But I didn’t get through all the questions. So it’s like, why in the world do you anyway you’ll you’ll get it.
You’ll figure it out. All right. We have 45 seconds on the clock. We’re going 45 seconds because we did one minute last time. Maybe it was because I was just like, oh, Denise, I think what you’re. I did not want to have time. I was in charge of timing. Yes. Okay. You ready? Ready. All right, here we go.
Question number one. Coffee or tea? Coffee? Email or phone call? Email. Okay. All right. Phone call. Both shows how many that just. Okay. Paper calendar or digital? Digital dog or cat? Dog. Sweet or salty? Salty. Beach or mountains? Beach. Introvert or extrovert? Yes.
I love I love all people. Jerry, I don’t know. You’re an extrovert. I’m going up to him anyway. First job. Oh, picking the driving range at the cove’s golf club. Very good, very good. Let’s see. Favorite. Now, this may get controversial, so we’ll just better hurry. Yeah. Favorite sports team? Oklahoma State Cowboys. Oh, it was controversy.
Dress shoes or sneakers? Sneakers. That’s it. That’s it. Great. Great. That was. That’s awesome. So you did a great job. Love it. Sounds great. Yeah. Well, listen, thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the time. We know your schedule is incredibly busy and I’m going to tag this on to the end. The big I will be hosting a couple of fundraisers for you in Tulsa and in Oklahoma City.
We’ll be sending that out in our newsletter. So I’m going to log the details right now. But but you’ll also be speaking and addressing some of our members at those meetings. So I would encourage everyone to come by. They I mean shake your hand, ask you questions. I think you know a lot of them. But for those that don’t know you, that’s a great opportunity at both places to get to know Big I member.
So we’re looking forward to, getting to do that and being a part of your campaign. So well, congratulations on surviving this far. Looking forward to what the future holds and we’ll be in touch. And thank you for coming on with this week. Thank you both. All right, Denise, we’ll talk. Okay. Happy Monday. Bob,. Nice to have you.
We’ll see you too.